The Cheekiest of Cheeky Vimtos
Jimmy | March 25, 2008I was drinking a bottle of tasty Vimto the other day, when the thought suddenly struck me that Vimto syrup would be an excellent basis for a fruity wash – it’s high in sugar, contains lots of interesting fruit flavourings, even some barley malt and spices.
I did some research online, but I couldn’t find anyone else who had done anything similar. This set off warning bells in my mind, surely someone else had thought along the same lines? I did find one post where someone mentioned that a friend had made delicious wine from Vimto (and Ribena!) but with no further details. Being a bit silly with this kind of thing, I decided it should be my mission to make Vimto brandy!
Of course, ideas such as this one rarely wait patiently in your brain, so I dashed off to the late shop and bought myself a bottle of Vimto cordial (original – not the no added sugar one, obviously!). I did some quick (i.e. half-arsed) calculations, and decided that 500ml of Vimto needs 250ml of water adding to it to bring it to the correct sugar levels for a decent fermentation. 100ml of syrup contains 33g of sugar, so I figured 50ml of water would dilute it to be more like 24.5g per 100ml. Correct? I don’t know, but it seemed to make sense at the time.
I put this heady brew into an empty, sterile 2 litre pop bottle, threw in a teaspoon of bakers yeast, and sellotaped an airlock to the top of the bottle. I shook it up well to get plenty of oxygen in, and then left it overnight to get going. In the morning…. nothing. No foam on the top, no bubbling, not a sausage. I figured that perhaps I needed to activate the yeast first, so I prepared another batch of yeast – this time I used a tablespoon, activated for 15 minutes in a glass jug which made a large amount of foam showing that the yeast was working. The result? Nothing.
Clearly something was amiss here, so I took a closer look at the ingredients list for Vimto. There are two preservatives listed which I suspect may be stopping the fermentation process. The first is Sodium Benzoate, or E211. I did some digging and found that if the pH is lower than 5, this will reduce fermentation of glucose by 95% – sounds pretty bad for our purposes. Fruit juices such as apple are generally around the 3.5 pH mark, meaning that Vimto is probably well and truly in the E211 zone.
Worse is the Potassium Sorbate – this stuff apparently stops yeast from multiplying. Any yeast which is already present can convert glucose to alcohol, but when it dies off there will be no new yeast to replace it. Not good. One of the applications for Potassium Sorbate is actually for killing off yeast in wine making before bottling, so it seems it’s perfect for stopping me making cheeky Vimto. Curses.
I don’t want to give up though, so I’ve emailed the makers of Vimto (Nichols plc) and asked them if they have any ideas – I know it’s unlikely, but you never know! Other than that, I have a couple of theories of my own. Firstly, I could try raising the pH of the solution to above 5 in order to stop the Sodium Benzoate having an effect. Secondly, I read that activated carbon is good at removing Benzine-related materials from a solution, which I would imagine includes Sodium Benzoate. I’m loathe to do this one though, as it will doubtless remove some of the flavour as well – it may come in handy as a last resort though. My other idea is that if Potassium Sorbate doesn’t affect living yeast, I might simply be able to throw a large amount of yeast into the mix – crude, but hopefully effective.
So then, my plan is to salt up the solution to raise the pH, chuck a load of yeast in to get some fermentation going, and see what’s what. If that fails, carbon filter it all and try again. If I have any response from the Vimto boffins, then naturally I’ll include that here too. In the meantime, if anyone out there has any ideas then I’d love to hear them!
Incidentally, the correct ingredients for a ‘Cheeky Vimto’ are of course Blue WKD and Port, but I think you’ll agree that if I can get this to work it will be far cheekier than anything made with a girls drink and some strong plonk mixed together! I am the cheekiest of them all, and I intend to prove it!
UPDATE!
I’ve received a message from someone who has tried similar things! He kindly offered the following advice :
As a home wine maker myself, I have also dabbled with trying to get soft drinks to ferment. I’ve never succeeded, but I did hear of one successful fermentation starting with the cordial. I believe this was achieved by adding the cordial at a low level to the fermentation and then progressively adding more in the hope that the yeast would not be killed by the preservatives. Not sure what the final result will be if you do succeed – I use kits myself or apples from my tree! – but remember to drink responsibly!
Hmmm, interesting. I hadn’t thought of doing it that way, but it makes good sense. I think I’ll have a try with this new method and see what happens – I’ll keep updating with any progress!
I would recommend Lucozade as the basis of an alcoholic
Xander Cormorant | April 16, 2008I would recommend Lucozade as the basis of an alcoholic superalcopop. Although possibly the orange one would be the flavour of choice.
I shall bear that in mind, it sounds like it
Jimmy | April 17, 2008I shall bear that in mind, it sounds like it might be an interesting experiment!
Apparently, some of the preservatives can be "driven off" by
Fatbloke | June 7, 2008Apparently, some of the preservatives can be “driven off” by boiling the mix for a while – not hard boiling but a gentle simmer for 15 minutes or so. Even then I understand that you’d have to leave it for a day or so after to cool etc.
Ah, yes, and because of the presence of sorbate in the Vimto syrup, you might have to be more creative about the yeasts etc i.e. read up about making a “starter culture” because the sorbate would stop it multiplying in the normal way, so making a healthy starter will give it enough yeast cells to ferment, rather than having to wait for the yeast to multiply and then move into the fermentation phase.
How much of the flavour that would pass out of the wash/still I couldn’t say. Calvados and Armagnac for example, it seems are initially made quite weak in alcohol (between 6 and 10%), but very dry. Hence the transfer of the flavour in the rather inefficient alembics that are used for distillation. More often than not, lots of the actual taste seems to come via the wood that the barrels are made of, but it’s the aroma/smell of the apples/pears that comes across in the aromatic esters, and less of the taste.
have you tried fermenting a normal sugar mash and adding
guerrila distilla | June 29, 2008have you tried fermenting a normal sugar mash and adding the vimto after fermentation. that way you get all the flavours without the hassle of ph balancing/yeast killing additives. i have tried making a cherry flavoured spirit using cherry concentrate the same way and the results were pretty impressive. use a good turbo yeast (i use alcotec triple distilled), clear it with finings, draw off the liquid and add the cordial straight to the still and away you go. you don’t have to worry about off tastes produced by any addatives or chemicals that may react badly to fermentation using this method. there are too many problems fermenting a cordial to be worth the hassle. if you do succeed let me into the secret though
Would lightly boiling, or possibly freezing the cordial get rid
pi55ed | October 20, 2008Would lightly boiling, or possibly freezing the cordial get rid of some of the chemicals out??
Its been two months...... is there an update ?
umpa | December 21, 2008Its been two months…… is there an update ?
I'm just trying to ferment some of Lidl's blackcurrant concentrate
Chris | January 26, 2009I’m just trying to ferment some of Lidl’s blackcurrant concentrate at the moment… I found a recipe for Ribena wine in the book First Steps in Wine Making. The key appears to be one-third of a teaspoon of citric acid to balance the pH level. Good luck.
Although these guys claim that you need to boil the
Chris | January 26, 2009Although these guys claim that you need to boil the Ribena for 10 minutes to drive off the preservatives. I don’t actually see these instructions in the above e-book!
One final post - Another Ribena thead - looks like
Chris | January 26, 2009One final post – Another Ribena thead – looks like the same recipe as the book, 3 table spoons of lemon juice, no boiling.
Thanks Chris, great links! As for my experiments, they didn't
Jimmy | January 27, 2009Thanks Chris, great links! As for my experiments, they didn’t work – the fermentation got stuck so that it made a little alcohol but not nearly enough to make it worthwhile. I ended up throwing it through the still along with some other odds and sods and then carbon filtering it all to make a neutral spirit. I don’t know if Ribena is different to Vimto, I will check the ingredients next time I am at the supermarket. I do intend to revisit this subject at some point.
I am a Yank in the Middle East where I
Bobby | June 18, 2009I am a Yank in the Middle East where I have been making wine for over 10 years. Once I too thought that Ribena blackcurrant would make an interesting wine and set about making it in a 7 litre jar. Sorbate is the main obstacle but I left the must alone and after about 3 weeks it began to bubble in spite of the sorbate – 3 weeks is a very long time for something to start that normally is in full fermentation after 4 or 5 days. In the end I had a blackcurrant wine which was already very acidic without adding acid. I did not try to distill but I think it might turn out ok. As a wine it is too acidic for my taste. Over the years though I have found Ribena to be a good but powerful flavouring agent for my red grape wine but in very small amounts. I make 50 litres of red wine at a time and to that I add only about 1/4 cup of Ribena at the very beginning so it all ferments together. I use red grape juice as a base and it too has sorbate but I believe Ribena has more than that found in regular juice. The grape juice always ferments just fine.
Hi I also have started a gallon of vimto wine
Monkey | February 13, 2011Hi I also have started a gallon of vimto wine I followed a recipe online and I put 1tsp youngs yeast 2lt of cordial to 3 lt water it is bubbling like he’ll will keep up to date
The best one I've found is Robinsons Apple & Strawberry
Iain W | May 20, 2011The best one I’ve found is Robinsons Apple & Strawberry cordial. Has pretty much no artificial anything in it, apart from some citric acid as an acidity regulator. Wasn’t acidic enough, though, so I got the must going by smashing up a couple of tubs of ‘organic’ Lemon boiled sweets (also no additives, but tons of citric acid) I got for £1 per kilo wholesale.
Boiled them up in some water until they dissolved into a thick, sticky syrup. Split that into four equal amounts in 4 demijohns, added four 250mL bottles of the Robinsons, plus 500mL of pure orange juice per demi. Then topped up to an inch from the neck with water. Alcotec Turbo 48 yeast (a decent spoonful in each demi).
Only drawback is that it takes about 10 days to fully stop fermenting (though it’s pretty cool in my brew-room, so it may go quicker in the warm) and a couple of weeks to clear without chemical help.
We estimate it hits approximately 22% abv by the time the bubbles stop. Half pint glass of the stuff has approximately the same effect on me as 4 pints of lager, so I don’t think we’re too far off in that estimate.
Recipe with piccys and how to listed here http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11225 amongst others
Neil TRD | September 15, 2011Recipe with piccys and how to listed here
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11225
amongst others